Episode 28
The Intersection of Money and Mindset
The episode delves into the often-overlooked psychological dimensions of wealth and financial management, emphasizing that despite the optimization of financial systems and portfolios, many individuals grapple with an intrinsic sense of inadequacy regarding their financial worth. We discuss how high earners may achieve substantial financial success yet remain ensnared in cycles of self-doubt and fear, questioning if their wealth truly equates to security and contentment. Our esteemed guest, Monica Goffman, a certified financial planner, elucidates the critical importance of understanding one's relationship with money and the narratives that shape this perception. This conversation reveals how emotional drivers and inherited beliefs can significantly influence financial behavior, often leading to mismanagement or underutilization of wealth. Ultimately, we advocate for a paradigm shift wherein individuals embrace the responsibility of their financial futures, fostering a sense of empowerment and agency in their financial decision-making processes.
Delving into the nuanced interplay between personal psychology and financial management, this episode of the podcast offers a profound exploration of the often silent struggles faced by high earners. The discussion commences with a stark recognition that the accumulation of wealth does not inherently equate to emotional fulfillment or security. Both speakers, Avik and Monica Goffman, a distinguished financial planner, articulate a compelling narrative that highlights how deeply entrenched beliefs about money, formed during formative years, can significantly influence financial behaviors well into adulthood. Goffman elucidates the psychological barriers that many individuals encounter, emphasizing that high performance in one realm does not necessarily translate to competence in financial stewardship. Throughout the episode, Goffman asserts the critical importance of understanding the emotional implications of money management. She challenges the misconception that financial stability can be achieved through mere optimization of income, positing instead that true wealth lies in the ability to cultivate a healthy relationship with one's financial resources. By sharing poignant anecdotes from her extensive career, Goffman underscores the necessity of self-reflection and emotional intelligence in navigating financial decisions. The episode encourages listeners to confront their inherent fears regarding money and to engage in a transformative process of self-discovery that aligns financial practices with personal values and long-term aspirations. As the conversation progresses, Goffman advocates for a proactive approach to financial management, urging listeners to embrace their roles as informed stakeholders in their financial futures. She emphasizes that the responsibility for financial well-being ultimately rests with the individual, encouraging a shift from passive consumption of financial advice to active engagement in the financial planning process. By fostering a mindset of empowerment, individuals are better equipped to manage their finances with intention and clarity. This episode serves as both an enlightening discourse on the complexities of wealth management and a motivational guide for those seeking to navigate their financial journeys with greater confidence and purpose.
Takeaways:
- The underlying psychological narratives surrounding money significantly impact individual financial behaviors and decisions.
- High earners often mistakenly equate income with wealth, neglecting the importance of investment and financial management.
- Emotional blocks and fear can hinder individuals from taking control of their financial futures and making informed decisions.
- Financial freedom is achieved by understanding one's wealth and ensuring it works for personal goals and aspirations.
- Effective financial management requires constant attention and adjustment, akin to maintaining physical fitness and overall well-being.
- Cultivating a positive mindset towards money can empower individuals to navigate their financial journeys with confidence and clarity.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Harmony Wealth Academy
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Transcript
Dear listeners, here's something nobody tells you.
Speaker A:Like when you finally start earning, well, the money arrives, the accounts fill, the metrics.
Speaker A:Looks very, very right.
Speaker A:And somewhere underneath all of this, a quiet voice starts asking, is this actually enough?
Speaker A:Am I actually okay?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:I believe a lot of you are just nodding your heads, but yeah, I mean, we have billions, entire financial industry around optimizing portfolios.
Speaker A:AI can now do it faster, smarter, with less friction than ever.
Speaker A:But there's one thing no algorithm has figured out how to touch.
Speaker A:And that's the story you tell yourself about the money means and what you are worth without it.
Speaker A:So that conversation is that one still very human, and we are having it today.
Speaker A:So, hey, everyone, welcome back to another powerful episode of Mind Means Machine.
Speaker A:I'm your host, Avik, and this is the show where we sit at the intersection of human experience and the intelligence systems shaping how we live, work and the group.
Speaker A:And today's guest has spent over two decades in wealth management, just not just helping people build the financial systems, but understanding why, why smart, high performing people so often undermine those systems from the inside.
Speaker A:So please welcome Monica Goffman.
Speaker A:Welcome to the show.
Speaker B:Thank you for having me.
Speaker B:I'm delighted.
Speaker A:Amazing, amazing.
Speaker A:So, Monica, like, before we delve deep into the discussion, I'd quickly love to introduce you to all the listeners.
Speaker A:So, dear listeners, Monica is a certified financial planner, founder of Harmony Wealth Academy, and someone who bridges mindset, leadership and money in a way that very few people in her field are willing to do.
Speaker A:So I won't take much time.
Speaker A:Let's get started.
Speaker A:Welcome to the show again.
Speaker B:Okay, so let me just start off with something.
Speaker B:One of the things that I absolutely hate is when people use jargon, it drives me batty.
Speaker B:And what it usually is for a lot of people is it's something that they memorize, like a sales script.
Speaker B:I'm going to use the following words to prompt and get the following response so that I get the following sale.
Speaker B:I hate that.
Speaker B:I hate that with a passion.
Speaker B:And the reason why I hate that is people have so much fear with the money system.
Speaker B:It's almost.
Speaker B:It's really the only system people don't learn and they don't master.
Speaker B:And so they approach it with this fear.
Speaker B:And the fear comes from all sorts of stories that we were told, whether people were conscious of them or not up until about the age of six.
Speaker B:Now, sometimes after the age of six, there are different things that happen and those make a big impact on it.
Speaker B:But that basic story is given to us by about age 6.
Speaker B:So let's start off with a couple of things.
Speaker B:So I just want to use the definition.
Speaker B:When I use the term mindset, what I'm thinking of is the lens, the mental lens through which I interpret data and information.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:It's what I bring to the data to give it context and meaning.
Speaker B:I have to have a way to figure out what it means to me.
Speaker B:And one of the things that I want to start with with most people is when you work with a financial professional, it is a privilege for any financial pro to have you as a client.
Speaker B:So if you don't understand what they are saying, that's not your problem, that's theirs.
Speaker B:You have the right to say to them, okay, make this real for me.
Speaker B:Use real language, real terms that I can understand without having to have a dictionary or use my phone to look it up and make this real and explain what this means to me.
Speaker B:So a stock, for example, when I trained new advisors used to drive me crazy if they couldn't identify what a stock was.
Speaker B:A stock is a tiny little ownership piece of a company.
Speaker B:That's all it is.
Speaker B:Okay, What's a bond?
Speaker B:It's an iou.
Speaker B:Somebody is borrowing money from somebody and at some point this is how they're going to get paid back.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:Okay, why do we call it fixed income?
Speaker B:Because you're not expecting it to go up in value.
Speaker B:You're expecting to get a known interest back or return back.
Speaker B:That's all it is.
Speaker B:And if you can't distill it down to its regular, normal terms, the person sitting opposite of you hasn't mastered it.
Speaker B:Okay, so that's number one and that's that, yes, you do have to learn the system.
Speaker B:But somebody who works for you has to respect the fact that it is a privilege to work for you.
Speaker B:That's all.
Speaker B:Let's start off with that.
Speaker B:When I first started in the financial industry, I had a little bit of an arrogance.
Speaker B:It came from economic research and the background.
Speaker B:And I remember I had a couple things hit me right at once.
Speaker B:I had an old timer look me in the eyes and he said to me, there are people who are going to save and invest and there are people who are not.
Speaker B:And it's not always driven by income.
Speaker B:And I received really my first two big referrals.
Speaker B:One was a regular couple, hardworking, they'd owned.
Speaker B:The husband had owned four dry cleaning businesses.
Speaker B:She worked as a paralegal when their daughter was born and she had some very serious physical and developmental issues.
Speaker B:They sold the businesses, the dry cleaning businesses, so that he could be home at the end of the day and be with his family, because his family needed him.
Speaker B:So they did that.
Speaker B:But what happened was they'd never earned a tremendous amount of money as income.
Speaker B:But what they did was they made a decision from day one that they were going to live off one income and invest the other.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:And by the time they retired in their 50s, not voluntarily, but it was made, the decision was made for them, which is everybody's big fear.
Speaker B:Am I going to be able to have control over when I stop working?
Speaker B:They had millions.
Speaker B:You would never guess from who they were or where they lived or what car they drove, how much their net worth was.
Speaker B:And then the other referral that came in was a doctor's family.
Speaker B:And the doctor had been making a tremendous amount of money.
Speaker B:He was a surgeon, and he earned an awful lot of money and spent almost all of it.
Speaker B:So when he came in, he had a medical issue where he was not able to work in his field anymore.
Speaker B:And if it hadn't have been for the disability insurance policy that he was forced to take out when he first started with the practice that he joined, he and his family would have had a problem.
Speaker B:So the way I look at this is, if you understand, you have to understand your emotions, you have to understand what money is, and then you have to decide what you want.
Speaker B:And as somebody said to me, you have to love yourself tomorrow as much as you love yourself today.
Speaker B:Once you do that and you care that much about what it's going to look like for you tomorrow and the day after, all of a sudden, it's not about discipline.
Speaker B:It's an act of love.
Speaker B:You learn the system and you change the behavior.
Speaker B:If the identity shifts, the rest of it can fall into line.
Speaker B:If you're willing to do the work.
Speaker B:And if that identity shifts, where you're like, no, I love myself enough to take ownership of this, like, think about everybody's career, all right?
Speaker B:Whatever it is that you do, I don't care what it is, you want to be the best person you can be at that field, you master it, right?
Speaker B:You master it in real life, you don't necessarily rely on other people to tell you what to do or how to do your job correctly.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:Money is no different.
Speaker B:So when I look at this, and I've said this to people, money is really there for you to take care of yourself and the people who matter to you.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:And when you understand that and whatever it is you're building, you do that, but ultimately it's because you care about yourself and you care about the people who matter to you.
Speaker B:And maybe you care about a lot of people, maybe you only care about a few people, but that's what it's there for.
Speaker B:And when you understand that and you start acting accordingly and you start learning that you learn, you know, if you want to be free, there's that spiritual belief that you were created to be free.
Speaker B:And I believe every single person was.
Speaker B:And what that means is responsible.
Speaker B:So you're responsible for yourself, you're responsible for the decisions you make.
Speaker B:And that spiritual connection, it flows into your body and how you are responsible for taking care of yourself physically, then emotionally, then what you think and how well you think, then the relationships around you, your work, and finally the last piece is your money.
Speaker B:So just as if you were not physically free, you were not free, you're not free.
Speaker B:If you're not emotionally free, you're not free.
Speaker B:If you're not able to decide what you think about a topic, you're not free.
Speaker B:Likewise, if you're not in control over your financial future, you are not free.
Speaker B:So if you believe you're created to step into that role and you love yourself enough to do it, then all things become possible.
Speaker A:So here's one thing.
Speaker B:I,.
Speaker A:I believe a lot of people will agree that there's, there's a lot of misconception as, as well.
Speaker A:I mean, there's a belief that runs very deep in the high earning cultures or the HNI's culture also.
Speaker A:And it sounds something like once I have the right system in place, once the numbers are optimized, and maybe I would say the plan is very particular or the solid, I can stop worrying about money and I have earned my peace.
Speaker A:That's the idea.
Speaker A:But yet you work with people who have the systems, who have the.
Speaker B:You have to have the system.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And who have.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, please.
Speaker B:Okay, let me just interrupt you and I'm so sorry for it.
Speaker B:I apologize.
Speaker B:Yeah, I do want to hear you and I apologize for this.
Speaker B:But here's the thing.
Speaker B:You do need to have those systems, but you have to be in control of what those systems are and you still have to maintain them because no one is going to care more about your financial future than you.
Speaker B:The easiest part of the financial management piece is developing the portfolio.
Speaker B:That is the easiest part of it.
Speaker B:And it's the part where financial advisors get paid the most.
Speaker B:Most financial advisors do not get paid to have the discussions that I have with people where we teach them the system.
Speaker B:And most people won't pay to get a viable financial plan.
Speaker B:But how many times have financial advisors seen a plan or a system that never gets implemented because you don't deal with the underlying psychological drivers that are there?
Speaker B:Once you implement the plan, you also have to adjust the plan because different things will happen.
Speaker B:And as different things happen, you can't carve it into stone.
Speaker B:It's a living, breathing agreement with yourself that you have to do it.
Speaker B:So one of the things that most financial advisors will say is we're going to have to go back and revisit this.
Speaker B:When I talk to a client and when most advisors talk to a client, I talk to them.
Speaker B:And it's not just because I care about them, because I do.
Speaker B:It's not just because I care about their financial, their personal condition, what's going on in their lives, are they feeling good?
Speaker B:It's because I'm looking for clues that something might have changed that affects how we invest their money.
Speaker B:So it's dynamic.
Speaker B:And like you would never say to somebody, hey, I've got the systems in place.
Speaker B:I'm never, I'm, I know what I'm doing with my physical fitness.
Speaker B:I'm just gonna let it go.
Speaker B:Like physical fitness.
Speaker B:Okay, there's like a four frame, there's a four stage framework for physical fitness.
Speaker B:So fitness is the ability to carry the load, whatever the load is, whether it's running a mile, whether it's running a marathon, whether it's deadlifting, a hundred kilo, which I can't do and I can't even imagine that you have that as you have a fitness.
Speaker B:That's the benchmark.
Speaker B:You start off with form.
Speaker B:Things have to work well together.
Speaker B:You get to health where everything is working tail to, to that point.
Speaker B:Then you get to fitness where they're able to hit and manage a defined load.
Speaker B:And then you get to performance where you're able to go beyond the load, but time shifts that, so you may improve so much that your fitness load goes up or your goal goes up or you may have an injury and you have to recover and you start back at the, the function stage.
Speaker B:You have to recover health and then get back to where you were.
Speaker B:So it is dynamic.
Speaker B:And that's the challenge.
Speaker B:It's how does this change in a real world environment?
Speaker B:As somebody once said, when you can learn something but you haven't achieved mastery until you can apply it in the real world and the systems have to hold up and you have to be Able to maintain them and shift them.
Speaker B:And the other piece is as your net worth grows, the type of investments that are open to you are also shifts.
Speaker B:So there's always a learning curve.
Speaker B:And then finally, when I started in the industry, the, the stock market, which is the one that gets all the attention, is the smallest.
Speaker B:And then you go out to the bond market, fixed income, and, you know, you go from there.
Speaker B:The options market was always a smaller piece of those two.
Speaker B:Now the options market is huge.
Speaker B:The alternative investment market has expanded dramatically.
Speaker B:So there are a lot of different things and a lot of different things to learn.
Speaker B:So unfortunately, I wish I could say that it is set it and forget it.
Speaker B:It's not.
Speaker B:I wish it was.
Speaker B:But you maintain the system and you expand the system and you improve the capabilities of the system.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:I understand that.
Speaker A:So, like, why do you think that the misconception.
Speaker A:Especially very stubborn in the high performance.
Speaker A:Like what makes it harder to them?
Speaker A:I mean, harder for them to see it.
Speaker A:Like, even when the evidence is right and there in their own lives, I.
Speaker B:Think the issue is how did.
Speaker B:What's their underlying story with money?
Speaker B:So there are a lot of people who grow up with nothing and who are incredibly frugal.
Speaker B:And because of that, at the end of the day, they have a tremendous amount there.
Speaker B:And then there are other people who have tremendously high incomes, spend too much and wind up without enough at the end of the day, if that makes sense.
Speaker B:Okay, so when I look at this, it's sort of like what's the underlying driver that's causing the action?
Speaker B:And within the United States, there's been several studies that talk about those inherited money messages.
Speaker B:All of them have kernels of truth, but they get taken out to extremes.
Speaker B:So that's number one.
Speaker B:And then the other piece is some people look at it.
Speaker B:It's a very weird thing.
Speaker B:Some people look and they say, I'm the master of the universe in my area.
Speaker B:I'm great at what I do.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So what I've learned applies in other areas.
Speaker B:Well, sometimes the learning process does, but that doesn't mean the assumptions do.
Speaker B:Like, I'm not gonna tell a surgeon how to operate.
Speaker B:I am going to listen to them about what they wanna do with their money.
Speaker B:But then I'm going to engage in a dialogue with them and try to help them clarify a little bit what they're making their assumptions.
Speaker B:Okay, so again, it's.
Speaker B:And then there's also the fact that.
Speaker B:And this is gonna sound really crazy.
Speaker B:Not only do we have Fear.
Speaker B:But people are overwhelmed.
Speaker B:We have the.
Speaker B:In the United States.
Speaker B:I don't know if this is true for India.
Speaker B:Sometimes I feel like we have the attention spans of ferrets.
Speaker B:It's like, oh, squirrel, okay.
Speaker B:And people can't actually hold a thought because it's stressful.
Speaker B:Things are so distracting.
Speaker B:There's so much going on and I'm not criticizing.
Speaker B:I'm putting myself in the same boat.
Speaker B:It's hard to maintain your focus and learn something new, especially when there's a stress going on with it.
Speaker B:So the question is, how are you going to shift?
Speaker B:What.
Speaker B:And the other piece is a lot of us know what we need to do.
Speaker B:Like I know I need to eat less, move more, sleep better and make sure I get a balanced diet.
Speaker B:And I'll lose weight.
Speaker B:Why am I not losing weight?
Speaker B:Because I'm not doing it.
Speaker B:Why am I not doing that?
Speaker B:And so that's the question that I ask people.
Speaker B:It's like, what's getting in the way?
Speaker B:What do we need to shift?
Speaker B:And how do we put a behavior shift around you so that you can do it?
Speaker B:I've seen people who are high performers and I've had this conversation with them.
Speaker B:It's like I have one, one woman who told me flat out she grew up with nothing and she made a promise to her six year old self that she would have enough money to buy whatever the hell she wanted.
Speaker B:I said okay.
Speaker B:And she makes a tremendous living, she's very successful.
Speaker B:And I actually was talking to her about the fact that somebody sat down and said it's not just about loving yourself today, it's loving about loving yourself about tomorrow and next year.
Speaker B:So that if there's a situation where you cannot work, you can still buy whatever the hell you want.
Speaker B:So if you want to, you have to shift and add in that future self and then a lot of things become possible.
Speaker B:People we don't in terms of that.
Speaker B:So much of our culture has become instant gratification.
Speaker B:That's the problem.
Speaker B:The system needs to allow us to provide for who we want to be in the future.
Speaker B:That's really the big key need to put that into the system.
Speaker B:Like who do you want to be in the future?
Speaker A:So I mean obviously the optimization without self awareness is just a faster version of the same cycle.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So you, you can automate your investment, but let AI run the rebalancing.
Speaker A:But if the relationship with the money is still rooted in fear or kind of scarcity or I'd say providing something, the portfolio looks different from the inside than it does on the spread side.
Speaker A:So I would just say, like you use a phrase that I really find interesting is that the hidden psychology of high earners, right?
Speaker A:So, so, like, I want to stay on that, like, because I, I think like most people assume, they assume that earning more, it resolves the psychological noise around the money.
Speaker A:But what you are struggling or not struggling, I mean, what you say is it can actually amplify it because so, so, and this is what are the patterns that you see most consistently underneath, like, high performing, okay.
Speaker A:Earning behavior.
Speaker B:The problem is that incompetence not equal wealth.
Speaker B:Income is not wealth.
Speaker B:So you have to take some of the income and shift it so that you make the money work for you and grow for you.
Speaker B:And you have to manage it like you're managing other areas.
Speaker B:So the reason for that is it's very simple.
Speaker B:Your financial freedom point is where you have enough wealth underneath you that's producing either income or growth in value or both.
Speaker B:Show that it replaces the amount of income you need so you don't have to work.
Speaker B:The goal is to make when every day.
Speaker B:The goal is to reach a point when every day is Saturday, where whether you work or whether you don't, your standard of living does not change.
Speaker B:So that's the shift you have to make to say, okay, right now I'm earning well, which is great.
Speaker B:How am I going to take this income after taxes?
Speaker B:Because here's the other piece you.
Speaker B:It's not just your nominal income, it's what you actually take home at the end of the day, how much you pay in taxes, how much you pay for your benefits.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:All those things before you pay your living expenses and all of that.
Speaker B:One of the things that happens is people will take that higher income and their lifestyle will inflate and they're not investing enough so that in the future they have enough wealth underneath them so that whether they work or whether they don't, it doesn't matter.
Speaker B:And that's the problem.
Speaker B:The psychology is I'm doing well, the income's here, I've made it, I can do it.
Speaker B:Nothing's going to happen to me.
Speaker B:I can actually afford to increase my lifestyle.
Speaker B:I can have that bigger house, that better car, whatever it is.
Speaker B:And yeah, probably you can.
Speaker B:But I also want to encourage you to love yourself enough in the future so that you grow that wealth that works for you so you don't have to work.
Speaker B:Or if somebody else takes the decision from you, it doesn't matter.
Speaker B:You can take your time finding your next position.
Speaker B:If you control your financial future, then all of a sudden, you know, if something doesn't work out, you're not stressed.
Speaker B:You may not like it, but it's not the same stress.
Speaker B:So that's the psychology of it.
Speaker B:It's sort of like you do well, you've done well.
Speaker B:You see it.
Speaker B:There are some people who have a money worship or money status thing, that money equals status, or it means like God's approval or the universe's approval.
Speaker B:And I look at that and I'm like, you know, there's some dangers with that.
Speaker B:Money is a set of tools in your hands.
Speaker B:What are you using those tools to build?
Speaker B:What do you want to make with those tools?
Speaker A:I'm sorry, I mean, I just.
Speaker B:Did I blow your mind?
Speaker B:I'm so sorry.
Speaker A:I'm just thinking.
Speaker A:I mean, what, what strikes me is that the very threats that build the financial success, I mean, the discipline, the drive, capacity to delay the gratification, I mean, it can become the exact same mechanism that prevents someone from they, from ever feeling like they are arrived or maybe they have arrived.
Speaker A:And it's, it's almost like the engine doesn't know how to kind of idle.
Speaker A:I mean, what do you think?
Speaker B:See, okay.
Speaker B:And that's a psychological challenge.
Speaker B:And I would look at people and say, look, you know what, You've had the privilege, you've worked, worked, you've saved, you've actually taken the time and instead of doing other things, you've devoted towards learning, you've devoted towards investing in yourself and in your future.
Speaker B:That's awesome.
Speaker B:This is just a continuation of that.
Speaker B:And people are like, wait, when does it stop?
Speaker B:And the answer is, I don't want it to stop in that the more I learn and the more I know, the more I can do and the more power I have in my hands.
Speaker B:So the one thing that I would say is that power.
Speaker B:Money gives you choice and power over your life.
Speaker B:So I know people who have gotten divorced because.
Speaker B:And they looked and they said, you know what?
Speaker B:Financially I can leave, I don't need to stay.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So when you have that money doesn't buy you happiness, but it solves problems and it puts power back in your hands.
Speaker B:If you control your money, you have more control over your life.
Speaker B:And here's the other problem.
Speaker B:If you don't take ownership of it, you're relying on other people and you do not want people making those decisions for you.
Speaker A:So thank you so much for sharing that.
Speaker A:And regarding real life, thing I want to talk about is like Because I think a lot of people listening, or maybe they'll be listening, the psychological dimension of money is still about the abstract until they see it's a behavior they recognize.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So what does that hidden psychology of high earner actually look like?
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a drive.
Speaker B:So the high earner is somebody who's driven and committed towards achieving in some area of their life where they're going to be compensated for it.
Speaker B:However, the high earner has to then decide are they going to be an investor or not.
Speaker B:And the question is, when they choose not to, there's usually an emotional block that gets in their way.
Speaker B:So I had one person who was phenomenally successful.
Speaker B:He had had a situation where his father died when he was young and his mother and his family were very vulnerable because his father didn't have things organized, put together, any of that.
Speaker B:And so it put the family into a tailspin.
Speaker B:So he interpreted this as he needed to become a high earner and he became an ultra high earner.
Speaker B:But what he didn't do, and he refused to do because of the emotional block was he didn't put things together.
Speaker B:And I had to get directly in his face and say, look, I'm not your attorney, but, you know, your father didn't have things put together and lightning struck with him.
Speaker B:What happens if lightning strikes with you?
Speaker B:Why is, you know, and he's like, I'm just afraid of doing this.
Speaker B:I understand that, I get it.
Speaker B:But I want you to be more afraid of not doing it than doing it.
Speaker B:So you have to.
Speaker B:Literally, the truly successful, financially free person is not just interested in earning well.
Speaker B:They're interested in managing and redirecting a large portion of that income because they have that higher income to divert so that they can actually build out wealth so that no one controls their destiny.
Speaker B:There's a point when people realize, hey, you know what, I'm on track, that it doesn't matter if I work past age 50 or 55 now.
Speaker B:It's just a question of me building it out so that I can retire sooner.
Speaker B:And that is something that is a real privilege.
Speaker B:So the question is, are you going to take that money and do something silly with it, or are you going to take that money and be proactive?
Speaker B:Are you going to take that money and, you know, when you get married, I don't know what the rate is in India, okay, for the divorce rate, but in the United states, it's around 50%.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:It may have dropped a little bit below 50% recently.
Speaker B:And I look at that and divorce is extremely expensive.
Speaker B:And having clear cut understanding of how money is going to be distributed throughout the marriage actually helps marriages.
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker B:Because it takes the temperature down in terms of under, of fighting or having an issue with it.
Speaker B:You've got to be upfront, you've got to be honest about it, you've got to manage it.
Speaker B:And if you can have that conversation about money and solving problems about money, chances are you can have hard conversations about other topics.
Speaker B:So when you take an ownership mentality and a success mentality in money, it's a lot easier to do it in any other area of your life.
Speaker B:So we know that high performers who are developing well take care of their physical fitness, they take care of their emotional health, they take care of their spiritual health.
Speaker B:However they envision that they take care of.
Speaker B:They're active in their communities, they're active with their friends.
Speaker B:It's not about money.
Speaker B:They spend time with friends and family frequently in things that don't cost a lot of money.
Speaker B:You can go to a park, you can go to a baseball game, you can spend time with your family and really not have to spend a lot of money.
Speaker B:But really, truly that's what's important.
Speaker B:And they have the mental freedom and the time freedom to be able to do it.
Speaker B:Once you take ownership in one area of your life and you take radical self responsibility and ownership of that part of your life, if you really embrace that process, it will bleed into all the other areas.
Speaker B:The reason why it doesn't bleed into money when people do it in other areas usually is because there's a hidden fear or there's a miscue on the money messages that they inherited as children.
Speaker B:And that's what needs to be addressed.
Speaker B:The other pieces, you will never ever, ever have a financial advisor or professional care more about your financial outcome than you.
Speaker B:You have to care and you have to manage these people.
Speaker B:You need to be in charge of your financial life.
Speaker B:And what that means usually is you're the CEO and you choose your cfo, your coo, and the people who work for you.
Speaker B:And it's not a personal relationship, it is very much a privilege to be on your team.
Speaker A:And also, if I may, if I ask, like when someone actually starts doing this work, the internal work alongside the financial work, because I think for driven people, there's a real tension and they can build a new system.
Speaker A:So what's harder in what harder is staying inside it when old patterns resurface, especially under the pressure.
Speaker B:You know, I've had this situation with clients and There have been a time sometimes when I've had the privilege of actually having a long term, what I call a hybrid client.
Speaker B:So we do planning, we may do asset management, we may do some fixes and some things if they're not comfortable.
Speaker B:But we also do coaching and teaching on the program.
Speaker B:And by doing that hybrid program, what happens is we get time for the client to figure out what the driver is.
Speaker B:And I'll tell you, I had one client who really, there was something that happened during childhood.
Speaker B:I'm not sure what.
Speaker B:And then when she got divorced, when she got divorced, when she had a young child, she was graduating from law school, she had debt, she had a negative net worth.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And she had a child, and she felt incredibly vulnerable.
Speaker B:And that shifted her financial behavior.
Speaker B:And she became an aggressive investor in real estate as well as in her retirement accounts and other accounts.
Speaker B:And so she was holding on because of these emotional issues.
Speaker B:And it was impacting her second marriage of like two or three decades.
Speaker B:And the reason why she hired me was because she didn't want to get divorced.
Speaker B:And she really needed to understand her money, what she had and what she didn't, how to manage it.
Speaker B:She didn't like some of the people that were working for her.
Speaker B:And she needed to figure out what it would take for her to step into that role where she was in charge.
Speaker B:And she was used to being in charge in every other area of her life, but she didn't have the bandwidth to do it there until she hit a certain point.
Speaker B:And when she hit that point, in order to make sure that her family, it was easier for her within her family, her relationships mattered to her more than anything.
Speaker B:She was able to figure it out.
Speaker B:And we had this one word where she said to me, well, am I going to be able to retire?
Speaker B:And I was like, yes.
Speaker B:And she said, well, the big question is, can I afford the better grade of yogurt?
Speaker B:And so when I did a first run through on her assets and looking at her financial plan, I sent her a real quick voicemail saying, hey, go buy the expensive yogurt, you're fine.
Speaker B:And that became our key for her to understand that she was, okay, you have to find that language.
Speaker B:What's that inflection point?
Speaker B:And so, you know, again, what.
Speaker B:Also the big thing was I put the power of the system back in her hands so that she understood it and she was able to deal with it.
Speaker B:And it worked.
Speaker B:And it improved some things.
Speaker B:Like, it improved her relationship with her cpa.
Speaker B:But it also meant that when she Went to fire a couple of financial advisors who were working for her.
Speaker B:She was very clear on why, and they couldn't argue with her, the facts.
Speaker B:It was like, no.
Speaker B:Oh, well, okay.
Speaker B:So I want.
Speaker B:You want people, especially the high performers who are successful in almost every other area of their lives, to understand that there's nothing here they can't master.
Speaker B:There's nothing here they can't do.
Speaker B:And I want them to have control over themselves.
Speaker B:I don't want anybody else having control over anybody.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:I want power back in the hands of the individual.
Speaker B:That's what motivates me.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:Build a system, make it work for you.
Speaker B:You can make it work for you, and you can expand it and alter it.
Speaker B:And if one thing isn't sitting right with you, you can shift.
Speaker B:You are not a potted plant.
Speaker B:You can move.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:I've said that to people, like, when did you become a potted plant?
Speaker B:They're like, what do you mean you can move?
Speaker B:You have legs.
Speaker B:Go.
Speaker B:You are not a potted plant.
Speaker B:Nobody has to pick you up, put you into something, and we'll burrow you out.
Speaker B:You're good.
Speaker B:You can do this on your own.
Speaker B:And it's a mental thing, so.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:It's a mental thing.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:I really love that, having this conversation, Monica.
Speaker A:And so before we move, I would love to ask you, like, if listeners wants to connect with you, have more discussion about it, where can they find you?
Speaker B:Okay, so you can find me on our website, which is vww.harmonyam.com we you can also find me at my email.
Speaker B:I am more than willing to have a conversation with people if there's an issue and they want to talk about it and they want to figure out where the gap is.
Speaker B:I'm happy to have a discussion with people and just sort of figure it out.
Speaker B:And the big question is, once you discover the issue and you understand it, then all of a sudden it's a question of saying, okay, now what do you want to do about it?
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:But I'm happy to have that conversation.
Speaker B:So you can reach me via email, which is mcaufmanarmonyam.com so, dear listeners, all.
Speaker A:Of that will be in the show notes.
Speaker A:So don't worry about writing anything down right now.
Speaker A:Just keep listening and it will be there when you're ready.
Speaker A:And the listeners.
Speaker A:That's a wrap for today's episode on Mind meets Machine.
Speaker A:And Monica, thank you so much for bringing this conversation here.
Speaker A:The space where money and psychology and identity all overlap in one that so many people are navigating quietly, and you have just made it a little less lonely for whoever needed to hear this right now.
Speaker B:Okay, time out, time out, time out, time out.
Speaker B:I wanted to say one thing.
Speaker B:80%.
Speaker B:Some of the estimates from the industry state that 80% of the American public does not understand the financial industry and how it impacts them.
Speaker B:So you are not alone.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:The question is, and I would say this to them, you've mastered things that were a hell of a lot harder than this.
Speaker B:I promise you that.
Speaker B:The question is, do you want to stay in this position or not?
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:Good question.
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker A:So what do you think?
Speaker A:Dear listeners?
Speaker A:Just let us know, like, how today's discussion changed your thought process, changed where you are right now and where you are thinking yourself to be after this episode that you have listened.
Speaker A:So do let us know.
Speaker A:It is really, really great to know what you think about.
Speaker A:And yeah, so all of you that are listening, like, if something landed for you, share it.
Speaker A:Not because the numbers need explaining, but because sometimes the most useful thing we can do for someone is we care about is hand them a conversation that they didn't know they needed.
Speaker A:So with this, with this hope.
Speaker A:I'm your host, Avik, and this is Mindbeats Machine.
Speaker A:Take care of your mind, and I'll meet you next time.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker B:Thank you for having me.
